Arizona H.B. 2036 Takes Idiotic to a Whole New Level

It's a blivit - ten pounds of stupid in a five pound bag.

Lol for real

Chelsea,
This is from the link provided by the article that you got the picture for your article.

Now the writer of the article does NOT support the Arizona bill but she has the character to offer the following;

"While it is true that medical professionals dealing with both wanted and unwanted pregnancies use the date of last menstrual period to gauge gestational age, this is a medical tool for assessing a pregnancy; "

So either you just didn't bother to look any farther or you did and ignored what was posted for the opportunity to bash those who oppose abortions....either way if doesn't reflect well on you as a person or as a "Crime analyst".

The traditional way of dating a pregnancy is starting from the start date of the last period. Of course when life starts is debatable but it wouldn't be at the start date of the pregnancy under the traditional method.

OK..so...life starts when the embryo comes into existence???

Well, then...shouldn't it be illegal NOT to get pregnant???

Wait...Equal rights dictates that life begins when sperm is created...Line up ladies...Jo Jo is here to help you to abide by god's law...just don't name it after me...

Menses is Murder!!!* Starting a new lunatic fringe group...ordering the plackards and bumper stickers now...

*Trademarked by Jo Jo to prevent exploitation (by anyone but Jo Jo)...

I for once agree with you, and the article bravo.

For ANYONE who has ever been pregnant you know you are pregnant for forty weeks. The forty weeks does begin at ovulation. Obviously, brainiacs, there has not been conception yet, but that is how the weeks have been counted. Always been that way. So why rewrite what every medical book has ever stated about gestational period, and the number of pregnancy weeks. Eighteen weeks, twenty weeks...whatever! The heart is beating, it has fingernails, there are eye lids and eyelashes, who the hell are you to hack that up? If the government found a single living cell, microscopic, on another planet they would exclaim there is life on that planet. Millions would be spent exploring the "life" source of that single cell, yet they will not protect an unborn child!

Embryos aren't "hacked up" ... they can't even POSSIBLY be in the majority of abortions which are sought in the United States (under 9 weeks gestation).

You cannot be pregnant before you even have sex. Count the days AFTER you're already pregnant if you want, that's fine. But you cannot be pregnant before you even have sex to make the embryo (which is what the wording in this bill is doing. Read it.) The wording in this bill leaves a lot open to mistakes as well.

You don't have to agree with abortion. But nobody is forcing you to go out and get one. You have a choice. Try to understand that others have choices as well, and if someone's choice is an abortion that is their legal right thanks to Roe v. Wade and that isn't going to change federally. Some fringe states may attack the rights of women, but those types never stick around long enough for the big picture, and women can always move away from those states (which states ultimately don't want, do they? to lose their citizens and voters? who cares either way, though, right?)

It's true a woman can't really be pregnant but the way the length of the pregnancy is calculate goes back before medical technology was developed. The only method was from the date of the start of the last period. If you go way back they though the egg actually came from the man and the woman just fertilized it some how. I think this is where the 'Fruit of thy Loins' saying came from.

My debate didn't say they had conceived in the first two weeks of gestation. Novel idea, I'm pretty sure my six pregnancies and four children, taught gestation, and gestation begins at ovulation. Conception, two weeks later. It's for COUNTING purposes. Not determining life. Unfortunately, by protecting the embryos it does give the same right for the 18 week hack job. Life is life, murder is murder.

Your ability to breed doesn't change whether or not someone has the choice to make medical decisions for themselves.

Legal definition of murder: The unlawful killing of another human being without justification or excuse

Medical definition of abortion: expulsion from the uterus of the products of conception before the fetus is viable.


A non-viable fetus isn't a living human being, and an abortion doesn't come without justification or excuse (there are TONS of justifications for aborting a NONSENTIENT lifeform.)

therefore making abortion, medically and legally, not murder. Just a fact.

I'm not quite sure what your debate even is, considering this bill isn't trying to do it for counting purposes but for determining life. Isn't saying someone is pregnant before they have sex an attempt at determining when life begins?

Is your debate that doctors "hack up perfectly healthy babies?" Because if so, you're just factually wrong on multiple levels. And that can be remedied if you're willing to learn.

Medically, life begins when you're able to sustain life on your own. Period. An unfertilized egg can't and neither can a fetus at 9 to 18-20 week gestation.

Can you give a reference for "Medically, life begins when you're able to sustain life on your own." This kind of makes sense I just have never seen it written down before.

Ouch, now I'm a breeder. Actually, it cost me over $70,000 to conceive the first time. I thought you reserved the "breeder" term for baby killers.

My debate, originally was 18 weeks 20 weeks...it doesn't really matter. At that point the baby is SO living. Ya, and unfertilized eggs - not life.

And as far as if I'm "willing to learn"....I'm no doctor, but my husband is. Pin head (you called me a breeder first). ;)

uh.. no, I said your ability to breed doesn't give you the ability to judge others for the decisions they make.

Breeding is a biological thing that pretty much all animals can achieve (aside from the obvious asexual species in the world). Being able to breed doesn't make one person better than the other and doesn't give that person expert status that gives them the right to make decisions for others who can do the very same biological function.

A fetus cannot sustain life at 20 weeks. Only 20% do beyond 23 weeks..etc etc etc.. They are "alive" but only because of their HOST (i.e. the mother) Without the host, the fetus will NOT survive at this stage of development. This is not "life", not even by the legal OR medical definition.

Have your "doctor" husband help you out on your reading comprehension since he's apparently the educated one of the two of you. It's a "pinheaded" thing to do to accuse someone of calling you names when nobody did.

This is what I said (it's also directly above your response):

Your ability to breed doesn't change whether or not someone has the choice to make medical decisions for themselves.

This does not equal "you are a breeder" -- and if that's the low opinion you have of yourself simply because of your biological ability to breed (that you share with a fair majority of animal species on this planet) then perhaps you should look at that on your own instead of accusing others of calling you that word out of your own cognitive misunderstanding of what's clearly typed in front of you.

No offense, Andrea.


(p.s. my fiance' is a tech guru, but that doesn't mean I am and it certainly doesn't mean I'm going to use my affiliation with him to tell you what to do with your electronics... That should apply to most areas of expertise in which people don't share with their SOs. Just like my fiance' doesn't try to pretend to know the CJ field just because I do ;) get it? You're not the doctor IF your husband really is (don't know you guys from adam so you can spin whatever stories you want online about your lives, many do so it's no biggie.) I know a good mechanic, but that doesn't make ME one and it doesn't make my opinions on cars valid in the least. Just saying)

Congrats on your engagement. I thought you were just living in sin. Ha! I seriously don't care if you were, I was just being silly. He sounds like a smart guy. Good. I think everyone should have a really really really good guy in their life.

Ability to breed...breeder...whatever.

I am pretty damn smart with or without him.

I've been with my sister when she delivered babies, one at 19 weeks, one at 20 weeks. Both were very very alive. They both breathed...on their own. They both cried...little teeenie tiny cries. They did both die, but they lived first. Maybe abortion docs should deliver more preterm living babies.

CJ. Does that mean crime junkie? I'm asking in all seriousness. I don't know what CJ means. I didn't learn that term in college.

You're a spin master. That's a compliment. Sort of.

Do you celebrate Easter?

Did you miss me?

Lol (and thanks)

There's a diff in having the ability to breed, and being a breeder though. A
"breeder" is one of those mice that pop out baby mice for you to feed to snakes.. dozens of babies a month..dozens... when you call a person a "breeder" thats.... just kind of sick. I didn't call you a breeder.


Doctors do deliver preterm babies at this stage (when the event rises, which is actually rare) they just don't sustain life. At least the short moments of life these early, early term births live aren't painful. No nerve endings yet.. not fully developed. The neurons don't fire and all that until later in gestation...



CJ is Criminal Justice...

Easter? Nope, but I like the candy that comes from it and I like pastel colors and the weather and liked coloring eggs as a kid. That's about it.


I noticed you weren't around for a while ;)

I'm still offended by the term "to breed". A breeder breeds. Spin it how you like. As you can tell, I take life, both born and unborn, very seriously.

Have a baby someday. It is such a miracle. Have a miscarriage one day (I'm actually not wishing that on you), you will feel like a part of you died. And mostly, as a generality not specifically to you, if you choose to have sex your choosing the possible consequences of a baby. You chose that. That is where you leave your choice behind because now you have involved others ability to choose.

Happy....uh, Easter candy consumption day. ;)

I've had a few miscarriages in my day. I'm approaching my thirties and am female. I've been through some of this stuff. I know it's not pleasant. I've never had an abortion though (and until I am faced with a situation that leaves me thinking otherwise, I don't intend on getting one. I am personally pro-life as far as MY BODY goes(unless there's an issue with a fetus or myself during a hypothetical pregnancy). I just don't feel the need in battling the medical and civil rights of others. Because scientifically, medically, We're just animals and the body does shit differently to every person and one pregnancy may be a blessing to some, might be a complete and total crippling curse on another. It's not my place to make choices that impact the lives of OTHERS. Just my own.)

Not everyone chooses to conceive children. Just like not everyone chooses to even consent to the sex that creates the children. Everyone's situation is different.
(and embryos/fetuses cannot make choices. They're not sentient.)

The statistical # of women who use abortion as birth control is practically nonexistent. Try 8 to 9 percent of all abortions in the U.S. And the thing is.. they're not "using it as birth control." There's no stat for that particular phrase. The 8 percent stat is for women who seek abortions who have NEVER USED birth control (so there ya go... pretty much the same thing and those women are idiots)

A far higher number than that (around 20%??) had "unexpected sex" 1% of that percentage REPORTED a rape. Those are the ones who reported the rape.. rape is notoriously under-reported, especially in cases of incest and other very terrible things that should NOT result in the creation of another life. It's medically unsound and unhealthy.

Life isn't black/white -- that's why others shouldn't insist that others live life by their own moral standards. Because the black/white of it doesn't exist. The availability of abortion has nothing to do with this notion of "if you're out spreading your legs you better deal with the consequences." -- because the completely disregards the rest of the medical reasons behind the procedure as a medically necessary option that should be left between the doctor and his/her patient(s).

First, let me say, even in all of they unkind things I have implied in your direction, I am truly sorry that you have had to endure a miscarriage. It makes me so sad for you. I say that with utmost sincerity. I'm really not a complete bitch, I only play one on Gather.

Even I, being a pro-life fighter, god believing, church attending, religious girl believe in the rights of a female who has been been the victim of incest or rape. Followed by lots and lots of counseling afterward. They didn't choose to become reckless or pregnant. The choice was simply not theirs. Only those who make a conscious choice should have to be held accountable.
Every single choice comes with consequences...good or bad.

Has it ever pissed you off to think people are willingly killing babies when having a miscarriage of your own? Just wondering. Sincerely. I was always extra pissed while doing fertility and having miscarriages. Finally, have four amazing children.

I get soft the later it gets. Sorry, I'll try to be a little more bitchy again tomorrow.

Lol ;) neither of us are bad people. I write about the bad people (you know that).

I've had a few miscarriages. I have PCOS. It's tough. I'll be going through fertility therapy one of these days after I'm married and all that to make sure I can even successfully carry a kid. Who knows.

But NO, I do not get mad that people get abortions even though I have had miscarriages and cannot appear to conceive without the help of special medical attention. I can't get mad at those type of things because some people choose abortion for the same reasons I would choose abortion. (i.e. genetic abnormalities and the like.. medical things, not frivolous reasons.) If a mother would birth a living baby at 20 weeks and adopt it out, then excellent.. if they could do it at 9 weeks and the baby still live, then that would be amazing. But I know they can't and I know that nobody should feel like they're being forced to do something with their bodies.

I DO get mad though.. when people harm living babies that could be in loving homes with people who do have love to give and no babies to give it to. People who give birth to infants and throw them in dumpsters, or abuse them until they die, or just keep popping them out and getting them taken away by CPS and the like. That kind of stuff pisses me off... It pisses me off more than anything on this planet could ever possibly upset me.

I think the many precious lives who are currently alive and able to sustain that life need to be looked at more closely than the ones who didn't make it to birth (I know that sounds callous but hear me out) -- the number of children in foster homes is staggering. The number of children in abusive situations where they are being molested and abused in ways that are totally unimaginable to many people in our society... are just uncountable.

Those babies need protection and new lives and loving homes. They need it more quickly than a gestating embryo that the mother doesn't want to carry, at this point because they are the ones who are feeling the pain and suffering as I type this.

That's just my opinion on things.. yes I can be dramatic, but it's just how I look at things I guess. Nothing pisses me off more than a child being harmed. A child that can feel the pain that is being given to him/her and can reason in their brain that they are being harmed, and not being able to find help. And the number of THAT going on in the world.... probably happens more than abortion.. just saying.

Castrate the fathers, remove the ability of conceiving from the mothers of those who harm children. There is a special place in hell for those people.

Do you believe in hell?

I can't even tell you how frustrating it is to try to adopt a baby, yet they're all tied up in the legal system etc. Mind blowing.

No, I don't believe in hell.

But yeah, I do wish there would be sterilization laws against repeat offenders against children, on both sexes.

Those laws are unconstitutional though, I believe.

It's far too hard to adopt in this country. But yet some states are so lax that kids end up adopted into worse situations. A family in CA was busted for adopting kids and using them as slaves. (like actual labor slaves)

idiots can screw each other all they want -- breeding is the problem in this case.


(i.e. we weren't talking about sex offenders, they should just be put down)

Agreed! Sex offenders should rot in hell. Hey, another good reason to believe in hell.

Hey pitchfork guy, castration with a sex drive....even better punishment for them.

if they believe in hell when they're being put down that's up to them, and probably makes it worse on them (good imho)

but meh, I don't believe in the afterlife... I just think we need to remove certain people from society because there is no hope in certain people. (i.e. certain convicted violent reoffenders... and Charles Manson of course... why on EARTH is this man still alive?) I'm a pro-death penalty liberal. Yes I know that is weird.

Not wierd...an eye for an eye. He should be dead.

Obviously, I believe in the afterlife so I'll save you. You will want me to. I promise.

Wait, sorry for so many unrelated questions...do you believe in ghosts?

It's all good.. I kind of believe in science fact over religion/theology. So don't bother, please ;)

(with all due respect of course)

Lol, now, I don't know if I believe in ghosts or not. I don't subscribe to the belief that spirits aren't real if god isn't real. Who knows. Ghosts could be electromagnetic remnants of some kind of disruption in our dimension or it could be the spirit of the dead, or it could just be trickery and overactive imagination.

or it could all be aliens from outer space..

But, I've seen/heard strange enough things to question whether or not there isn't something in the lines of SOME (very little mind you) paranormal phenomena ...

It is unconstitutional, but seriously that Shokey chic pregnant again. Damn! You should start believing in at least hell, it would give you peace of mind for where wicked evil women like her go!

My husband wonders if you have checked insulin resistance for PCOS....? I don't even know what that means.

HEY, I'm still damn smart with or without him. Remember. :)

Lol, well hell or no hell, Jerice Hunter will eventually find her life choices catching up to her. The detectives in Glendale are doing a VERY thorough job.

yeah, I've gone through the tests and stuff the liver palate (sp?) the insulin blah blah blah and all that.

My condition is very moderate and has been slowly correcting itself over the years.

That's good. My pregnancies in my thirties were my healthiest and easiest.

If it doesn't work out, I'll just adopt.

but SO not ready for kids right now anyway so it's all good. I have to finish this degree and get one more before I do that.

I got my degree after my first two were born. My husband too. He was four years ahead of me. It will happen when it is supposed to.

(it'll happen when I'm done. unless of course it's by accident.. accidents rarely happen here on my end though. I rarely ovulate. if an accident happens before I'm done setting up my career, then so bet it.. but as long as I'm in control of my body, I'm calling the shots... but of course will be happy over a happy accident don't get me wrong.)

uhhmmmm... even murderers get let out ;)

Look up Michael Moodmanse... he just got out after only serving 12 years.

it's TOO subjective.

a lifetime of study doesn't help :(

I've been studying since I was 12 years old (the very first serial killer encyclopedia I ever read)... and I'm still shocked daily.