The occupy movement that grew from Occupy Wall Street is spreading, but is it a movement or a disease? The question may sound offensive, but only if one is willing to set aside a large amount of evidence that points to a movement that is more than not attracting the worst of American political ideologies. And in many cases, the speakers for those ideologies are becoming the not so invisible spokespersons for the movement.
What's going on?
As the movement spreads, a loud strain within it is more comfortable making clear precisely what they believe the problem is in the country. Instead of pointing to unfair taxes, or policies which they believe are unjust, this group believes that the problem can be summarized in two words: Jewish bankers. And other radicals are also moving in from the fringe to take center stage in the movement as well.
On cue, the vintage media shifted attention away from the radicals as quickly as possible, likely due to President Obama's vocal support for the movement. But ignoring them doesn't mean that these radicals don't exist. And as they grow more vocal, more like-minded people flock to them.
Why does this matter?
Facing a massive budget problem, and many other foreign policy failures, the Obama administration has embraced the occupy movement. In many ways, this is a government stamp of approval in modern politics. It provides dangerous cover to groups who ignore, or seek to rewrite history. Among them are the American Nazi Party, who are gleefully embracing the movement as an opportunity to spread their message of antisemitism.
And these hateful ideologues are not marginalized in the movement. Their infusion of hate is made possible because the movement still cannot produce a clear, viable message, just as they could not from the beginning. Communists and libertarians will never get along on fundamental political ideas. And without practical political ideas as a vehicle for a message, "hate the Jewish bankers" is as valid as anything else the movement can, or will, present. That's dangerous.
Why is this dangerous?
Many people know little history. That lack of knowledge can lead to horrible repercussions. Some history lessons should never be forgotten, like these:
- Hitler is the most recent example of creating havoc by using an economic crisis to vilify the Jews, leading to a holocaust where millions were labelled "sub-human" and killed.
- After the American Civil War, factory workers in the North did not want freed black slaves to come North, fearing that they would lower wages and ruin society, thus building on already horrible stereotypes and reinforcing hatreds.
- Russians scapegoated the Jewish people during their 1917 Revolution, leading to violence and attacks on innocent people.
Providing a "credible" outlet for outrageous accusations and slanders creates an environment where hate thrives. The American Nazi Party understands that, which is why they embrace the occupy movement. The vintage media and the rest of the country should wake up to the threat, before action grows out of it.
Image by Bill Turner
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Comments: 71 ( 1 removed by Bill Turner )
It's happened in Madison Wisconsin and the Occupy Madison people had their permit revoked!
Do you know what a statistically invalid sample is? You just presented one.
Baggers like Herman Cain because he makes them feel better about their racism.
And as for the rest, learn to read, it might do you well in the future.
http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1398/slide_1398_20075_large.jpg
http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1398/slide_1398_20074_large.jpg
http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1398/slide_1398_20110_large.jpg
http://youtu.be/S38VioxnBaI
http://motherjones.com/files/imagecache/node-gallery-display/photoessays/teapartyniggar2.jpg
http://motherjones.com/files/imagecache/node-gallery-display/photoessays/20100912_zaf_mv2_008.jpg
http://motherjones.com/files/imagecache/node-gallery-display/photoessays/willis.jpg
http://motherjones.com/files/imagecache/node-gallery-display/photoessays/deportobama.jpg
http://motherjones.com/files/imagecache/node-gallery-display/photoessays/arrogantkenyan.jpg
http://motherjones.com/files/imagecache/node-gallery-display/photoessays/imamobama.jpg
http://motherjones.com/files/imagecache/node-gallery-display/photoessays/brownestthing.jpg
http://insanitea.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/herrbo.jpg?w=460&h=613
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1391/slide_1391_20032_large.jpg
And my personal favorite, where a bagger calls themself a bagger.
http://img.wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/dsc02679.jpg
I could go on, but you get my point. Or at least you should.
Are you saying the OWS movement is supporting public masturbation?
Do you personally associate the OWS movement with public masturbation ... is that supposed to be a serious statement. Yeah, I know it's not because it is under the byline of Winston Smith.
There will surely be wackos that show up everywhere ... but I can guarantee you that the larger group will disavow violence or masturbation or whatever a small minority of wackos do ... who probably are there being paid to provoke trouble by the right-wing anyway, like the right-wing Christian abortion doctor killers or the anti-Gay bashers. Americans want to be rid of this obnoxious scum minority or thugs who use their false ideas of morality and religion to justify violence they just take to naturally anyway.
If the Nazis has given their people jobs, education, health care, etc they would not have been killing their fellow Germans of different extraction and moving to take over the world. Socialism, as distinct from Fascism is a "democratic" movement, contrasted with Fascism which grows out of distorted Libertarianisn and is tyrannical and authoritarian in nature.
America's educational system is not so bad that I should have to explain that to anyone.
All the major polls point towards the majority of the Public supporting much of Occupy Wall Street's ideology.
The fringe elements of the Movement have NOTHING to do with the group's core principles--concepts that are advocated, by a fair chunk of the American Public....
Such petty allegations--in this Post, above--are similar to the misguided accusations of Racism and Fascism, leveled against the Tea Party--which were ALSO unfair attributions.
It is typical of the Right to demonize a Movement, and an Ideology, that threatens the Right's continued need to dominate the debate in the Media.
That dog won't hunt anymore.
And this Post is unadulterated propaganda.
Check the polls, my friend--or do you think that many in the country are simply Communists and Nazis?
“Our research shows clearly that the movement doesn't represent unemployed America and is not ideologically diverse. Rather, it comprises an unrepresentative segment of the electorate that believes in radical redistribution of wealth, civil disobedience and, in some instances, violence. Half (52%) have participated in a political movement before, virtually all (98%) say they would support civil disobedience to achieve their goals, and nearly one-third (31%) would support violence to advance their agenda.”
“Thus Occupy Wall Street is a group of engaged progressives who are disillusioned with the capitalist system and have a distinct activist orientation. Among the general public, by contrast, 41% of Americans self-identify as conservative, 36% as moderate, and only 21% as liberal.”
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204479504576637082965745362.html
Even if 100% of liberals and half of the moderates agree with the Occupy movement, that is still only about 39% far less than 50% and less than the 41% conservatives.
Please note who did this pole, he worked for Clinton and would like to see the democrats win next fall.
This is a Revolution and the rich cannot keep taking away our homes and our Social Security while they inclease our taxes and say we have to give up more and more benefits.
The people have had enough and they are rising like they did in 1776 and 1791.
How sick to call our movement a disease. We are standing for what we believe in.
It was Ronald Reagan, George Bush and other Republicans that put us in this mess. Obama has done a lot of good things to turn this country around.
Republicans seem to get fiscal responsibilty only when they are out of power.
Not fair, is this what the American dream and the New Normal looks like now?
> is it a movement or a disease? The question may sound offensive ...
Yeah, you noticed eh? Why didn't you phrase whatever point you are trying to make without the BS language or is the point to fire off a big argument right from the top so that less attention will be paid to the structural and factual deficits in your article?
And what is this supposed to mean:
> if one is willing to set aside a large amount of evidence that points to a
> movement that is more than not attracting the worst of American political ideologies.
Then ...
> And in many cases, the speakers for those ideologies are becoming
> the not so invisible spokespersons for the movement.
I think it may be been as early as 2nd grade that I learned not to start a sentence with a conjunction.
> this group believes that the problem can be summarized in two words: Jewish bankers.
Really, I had not heard this. Is this what the consensus is in all the different OWS protests or is it just more of your own hyperbolic exaggeration?
Are we to blame the OWS movement because other interests are coming to co-opt the movement, when for example the TEA Party and so many fake conservative movements start out that way?
President Obama is not "embracing" the OWS either, any more than any politician who is asked to comment on these people and does not want to put their foot in their mouth and alienate voters for their side. You've heard some of the right-wing mouthpieces talk about OWS, right?
I am halfway through this peculiar article and not one thing mentioned is truthful or without blatant spin.
Here's an idea. Rather than try to create your own story about tarring and discrediting the OWS movement with the "Jewish Bankers" statement try to include just the tiniest bit of balance and objectivity, like if there was an "Jewish Banker" remark made, who was it made by and how many subscribe to it. Try to find some facts and disseminate them instead of making your own facts up. That's called "fiction" where I come from ... if one wants to be polite.
As far as what I do with my life I don't really put it out on the Internet much because I think it's pointless and I like my privacy, and finally I do not expect anyone to really believe any claim I make ... I think Internet discussions should be based on verifying facts and discussing the meaning of them.
I can't speak to Iowa, but I have read coverage in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco that also confirm similar circumstances.
http://www.americannaziparty.com/news/archives.php?report_date=2011-10-16
If there is, it is probably all remnants of CIA and FBI agents
keeping track of the one or two people that wander in there
to see what it is about.
The KKK and Nazis are a bigger threat to this country,
and I would include Libertarians in that, gun toting
thugs just waiting for the day when they can go from being
ineffectual losers to telling other people what to do at the
barrel of a gun. All losers.
Real socialists, say like Bernie Sanders, just want to
fix things so they work for everyone again ... and that is
a fearful idea to the top .01%
The hodge-podge of the OWS movement is from pure
frustration because everyone these opposition groups
becomes owned or managed by the status quo - the
opposition - any opposition becomes another trap that
the distrustful of democracy rich infliltrate and buy off
to protect themselves from the rabble they have dreamed
up that wants to guillotine them them ... that does not exist.
There is no where left for normal people to go ... but I
suppose you don't need to worry about that do you? ;-)
This very article fulfills the words of the above quote.
Where is this EVIDENCE whereby you slander this movement by associating it with "hate the Jewish bankers" ?
Nowhere, you simply made shit up, then stirred the pot.
http://www.americannaziparty.com/news/archives.php?report_date=2011-10-16
Racial Comrades: I am going to address the issue of this "Occupy Wall Street" fervor that has been sweeping the land like a breath of cleansing air!
THE NATIVES ARE GETTING RESTLESS, AND ZOG FEARS IT MIGHT HAVE A POPULAR UPRISING ON ITS HANDS - finally!
This issue is TAYLOR MADE for National Socialists, as well as WN who are serious about DOING SOMETHING - MORE - than shouting "racial slurs" and acting like "poster boys of hate" loons.
After all - JUST WHO - are the WALL STREET BANKERS? The vast majority are JEWS - and the others are SPIRITUAL JEW materialists, who would sell their own mother's gold teeth for a PROFIT. And MORE and MORE people are AWARE of this truth, are not only NOT afraid to TALK ABOUT IT - they're shouting it on WALL STREET!
I urgently URGE all of you to TAKE PART and JOIN IN when these protests hit your neck of the woods. Produce some flyers EXPLAINING the "JEW BANKER" influence - DON'T wear anything marking you as an "evil racist" - and GET OUT THERE and SPREAD the WORD! Put as a "contact point" on your literature, our www.ANP14.com address - it won't immediately "scare off" some of these scaredy-cats for even looking at our FACTS - for FACTS they ARE!
If you are unable to produce your own leaflets - check out the "support" section of our website - there are a LOT of good flyers there to utilize.
This issue reminds me a LOT of the "GASOLINE SHORTAGE" of the 1970's - where National Socialists found a HUGE receptive audience, for our viewpoints - per the JEWISH CONTROL of OUR GOVERNMENT and its insane support for Zionist Israel, and the Arab Oil Boycott that hit OUR people so hard.
As I have so often in the past spoke on - the White Working Class - is going PAST, the BOILING POINT, and is quickly reaching ULTIMATE EXPLOSION! THEY want ANSWERS! THEY want RESULTS! All of which this evil corrupt, decadent JUDEO-CAPITALIST SYSTEM is incapable of giving them. WHY? Because its BOUGHT and SOLD to the CORPORATE ELITISTS who are fast turning America into a "South American" style - THIRD WORLD WAGE-SLAVE STATE - ( complete with MILLIONS of BROWN illegal aliens willing to ACCEPT YOUR JOB for LOW WAGES and NO BENEFITS ) where, currently 3% of the population CONTROL 85% of the nation’s WEALTH! And the "GREAT DIVIDE" is GROWING each and every year that passes.
WE - the WHITE WORKING CLASS - have been LIED TO and totally DECIEVED - just the other day, the system APPROVED THREE MORE so-called "Free-Trade" deals. ALL of which mean that MORE JOBS are going to be SENT OVERSEAS - YOUR JOBS! Don't you CARE? Enough to DO SOMETHING?
NOW is the TIME! GET INVOLVED! IT’S YOUR FUTURE THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.
Stop clicking his posting, even if curious because he is making money as well as fools of every reader.
Well, if it's attracting the worst of American political ideologies, then clearly it and everybody involved with it must be held responsible for doing so.
And speaking of that kind of thing, here are a few pro-Ron Paul forum posts I found at (white nationalist online community) Stormfront.org:and also:Also, if anyone appearing or speaking at an Occupation site (which are, pretty much by definition, available to the general public), or writing about it on the internet can become "not so invisible spokespersons" for the movement mean that anybody who, say, comments in response to an article or post about Ron Paul anywhere on the internet and shows support for Dr. Paul can be considered a not so invisible spokesperson for the Ron Paul campaign?
That's right, Sue. It has to do with search engines using linking as an element in their ranking algorithms.
Oh, how noble, Wil! I should have known.
I didn't say anything about those forum posts being evidence that Ron Paul is a white supremacist, Sue. They're white supremacists posting racist and anti-Semitic comments and backing Ron Paul as their preferred candidate.
I provided those comments as evidence that Ron Paul is "attracting the worst of American political ideologies". And if the Occupy movement should be held responsible for doing so, then surely the Ron Paul campaign should too, don't you think?
Political candidates all draw their share of nutcases who support them but also, because they are nutcases, they have a skewed perxeption of what they're supporting too.
"Trouble is the Constitution is defective and needs to be abolished along with repudiating the debt, the Federal Reserve, social security, FDA, CIA, Dept of Education, etc. will all go with it." The statement is evicence of that. The kinds of agencies and government arms Ron Paul is concerned about are all standing in the way of the Constitution. If there is any candidate who supports the Constitition and wishes to uphold it, it is Ron Paul.
I will tell you that Ron Paul is ultimately responsible for all these protests. He never meant the Tea Party (which I know you don't believe he was initially responsible for starting before it got hijacked) to be a partisan protest. It was a protest with the same basic ideals as this OWS protest. Ron Paul's concern for decades with the Federal Reserve and the control of our monetary system is finally getting attention, but still not enough. There is no difference between big government and big money because the people who control big government are not interested for any other other reason but for big money which is also power and greed. The OWS movement got hijacked by a different faction, but the protest and dissatisfaction with government itself is no different. It's been made different only by the partisan factions that are controlling the people who are disgusted. If the Tea Party and the OWS don't come together on their protests, these protests are not going to amount to anything more than martial law and more government control.
If I hadn't seen you say before that you think Ron Paul has made racist statements, I would have let this go, but it seems to me to be your intention to make it clear that he draws a racist faction. i want to make it clear that if he draws any racist faction, it's because they are too crazed to understand what and whom they're supporting.
And that can't happen with movements like OWS? Is there any reason why the Occupy movement should be held responsible for statements of support from the American Nazi Party, but Ron Paul shouldn't be held responsible for statements of support from Stormfront?
"i want to make it clear that if he draws any racist faction, it's because they are too crazed to understand what and whom they're supporting."
Reading through that thread, they seem to understand that Paul wants to end the Fed, eliminate birthright citizenship, get rid of federal civil rights and anti-discrimination legislation, withdraw all financial and military aid to all foreign countries including Israel, and drastically reduce the size and power of the federal government, resulting in more control for state governments.
It looks like at least some of them are familiar with those Ron Paul newsletters from back in the 90s, too.
There's also the possibility that he gets support from these sorts of groups because he's actively courted them in the past:
"I will tell you that Ron Paul is ultimately responsible for all these protests."
I don't think so.
"It was a protest with the same basic ideals as this OWS protest."
To some extent, I think this is true, but Ron Paul doesn't seem very supportive of the OWS movement.
"The OWS movement got hijacked by a different faction..."
Who has hijacked the OWS movement?
"If the Tea Party and the OWS don't come together on their protests, these protests are not going to amount to anything more than martial law and more government control."
The OWS protests and the General Assemblies are open to anybody who wants to participate. I've heard and read that there are some Ron Paul supporters involved in various cities, but I don't know about any Tea Party people. A lot of the Tea Party people here at Gather seem to be more interested in attacking the OSW movement than getting involved in or protesting alongside it.
I never said it couldn't happen with movements like OWS. I actually said it could and did. That's your argument with Mr. Turner, not with me. It's still no reason for you to turn the tables on Ron Paul because of it. Once again, I said I would have left what you said alone had you not done that.
I said and you quoted: "i want to make it clear that if he draws any racist faction, it's because they are too crazed to understand what and whom they're supporting."
Then you answered what you were reading out of the context of the entire comment of Dwayne. He started the comment with ""Trouble is the Constitution is defective and needs to be abolished along with" all the rest. He seems to think that the Constitution needs to abolished and the rest of it is also going to accomplish that. Well, he's out of his tree because that is not what Ron Paul is advocating and that is not the reason for "repudiating the debt, the Federal Reserve, social security, FDA, CIA, Dept of Education, etc." None of that has anything whatsoever to do with eliminating the Constitution, but has to do with upholding it.
I'm certainly paying no attention to anything these people say about Ron Paul either for the same reasons I just gave. They're screwed up. The source of the statement is as important as what they say. I'm certainly not giving any credence to what any blogger on a white supremacist website says. You're welome to feed your head with it, but don't throw it out at me as if it's something I need to defend Ron Paul for because it's not necessary. I don't feel the need to defend anyone against anything any crazed racist might say and anyone who feels a defense is needed for anything a crazed racist might say has problems, as I see it.
As I said, my only point to you was that I think "it is your intention to make it clear that he draws a racist faction. i want to make it clear that if he draws any racist faction, it's because they are too crazed to understand what and whom they're supporting."
Then I'm not sure why you replied to my comment, which as you pointed out, was in response to statements made by Bill Turner.
"It's still no reason for you to turn the tables on Ron Paul because of it."
I didn't turn any tables on Ron Paul. I pointed out that if the OWS movement should be in any way held responsible for attracting the worst of American political ideologies, then so should Ron Paul.
And I'll make it clear once again that I think one of the reasons why Ron Paul gets support from some members of various "racist factions" is because he actively courted them for decades. I'm pretty confident that the same can't be said for the Occupy movement, but I'll be happy to take a look at any evidence that the GAs are putting out anti-Semitic or racist statements.
Why did you choose Ron Paul if there is no specific table turning? Why didn't you choose Obama then?
We had this argument about Ron Paul courting racists last election, I'm pretty sure. I'm not up for it now, but we'll do it soon.
Because Bill Turner writes articles supporting Ron Paul.
So what? Turner writes a lot of articles about Ron Paul. I used Ron Paul to point out what I believe to be a double standard exhibited by Bill Turner in this article about the Occupy movement.
Then you responded to my comment, apparently to defend Ron Paul while insisting that you didn't feel the need to defend Ron Paul.
Then I showed you their illogical reasoning for supporting Ron Paul, though not all do. Still, I didn't see one comment there that sounded like it came from sanity. I think I made that clear or people had the opportunity to read them for themselves and come to the same conclusion. There's no reason to continue his defense after pointing that out is how I should have worded that.
Okay. I prefer not to provide direct links to websites like Stormfront, but I agree that it's helpful for people to see just how "fringe and radical" some of Ron Paul's white nationalist supporters really are.
Yeah, and I still haven't seen any evidence of any of the Occupy GAs doing anything like that. Given their diversity and openness, I think it's unlikely, and I'll be disappointed if I find out otherwise.
BTW, in Reconstruction after the brief period when freed slaves held elective offices etc, the south developed Jim Crow. Certainly there were nativist movements all over the country. The west coast was very strong on Chinese exclusion. Catholic immigrants were discriminated against all over the country. I was around during the 1960 election when a lot of people were saying that JFK would take orders from the Pope if elected. The US doesn't have a very good record in the tolerance department.
Ain't goiin' for the "Jews are inherently innocent" routine. They're not, anymore than anyone else, I say. And they can conspire just like all sorts of people have throughout history . .
Each and every person that speaks as though criminals don't conspire on a routine basis, is utterly lost in a fantasy world as far as I'm concerned. I've almost literally never heard anything so rediculous in my life. There are obviously very real cartels and syndicates and Mafias all over the world . . Where the hell you been?
Something like the "Occupy movement" or the "TEA Party movement" will naturally draw these elite psychopathic one's interest, precisely because such movements tend to focus attention on them, and have the potential to get the citizenry engaged and informed about what is really going on, and what these faux human parasites are up to. Co-opting or confusing whatever starts to form among us in response to them, is mundane business as usual, that's what psychopaths do . . we are their "host" so to speak, and stifling resistance to the parasitic relationship to their host, is what successful parasites are good at.
Movements are not discrete entities, and therefor can easily be "animated" and "anthropomorphized" to make them appear like just about anything, since the mass media has long ago been bought and co-opted by the parasites (naturally), and it's no big deal to turn them into caricature-like vehicles for fomenting discord and suspicion among the populace. That's all "the parasite" wants now, I believe, so the law enforcement/military personnel can be convinced that the populace needs to be further controlled and subdued, while the "New World Order" is finalized and thoroughly entrenched. The Republic had to be taken down to get that new Order established, and "the parasite" knew we would eventually become very restive and troublesome. They've seen it before many times in smaller prey countries.