Occupy Wall Street Spreads to Salt Lake City

Natasha, be aware of who these people are and what they are saying and not saying, who is funding them and what other organizations are associated with large factions of this group. Yes they have the right to peacefully speak out and I would be the first to agree. Because there is really no "Organization" it is hard to put a definition on what they stand for.
Read there signs, and listen to what they say, and see how many of the following are true:
1)Do they stand for personal Freedom?
2 )Do they stand for personal Responsibility?
3) The rule of law?
4) Convicting of criminals, based on current law?
5) Limit or reduce the size of government?
6) Limit or reduce spending by the government?
7) Individuals make this country great?
8) Capitalism make this country great?

1)Do they stand for social justice?
2 )Do they stand for little or no personal Responsibility?
3) Want new laws or comprehensive reform?
4) Demonization of the rich as a group?
5) Expand the size of government?
6) Expand spending by the government?
7) groups make this country great?
8) Socialism makes this country great?

My best is that if you said yes to more questions in the first group, then most likely the group would be the Tea Party and is pro capitalism. Where if you said yes to more questions of the second group, then most likely it is some other group that has ties to Socialism, Communism and / or Marxism and is interested in getting the people to trade its freedom for nonexistent security. While funded and increasingly organized by unions and people who have stated that they would like to do harm to this country, like George Soros.

What side are you on, Freedom or something else?

I have read and understand what they stand for and it is a total overhaul of how politics and wall street coexist. I was proudly part of AFSCME and am glad they are standing with OWS.

So how would this overhaul work, even at a high level?

That was a simple question?

Be very careful, as these groups grow and they can get out of control. At what point do you get out. When the cops start arresting people? When the group goes into communities where people live? When personal property is damaged? When people get hurt? When the group fights with the police and the guard is called? When people are killed? When they target rich bankers to be executed? Look at the French revolution, once they started the beheadings, they did not know when to stop.

First they will come for the rich banker, and I will say nothing because I am not a rich banker. Then they will come for the Jews and I will say nothing because I am not a Jew, they will come for the gay and I will say nothing because I am not gay, then they will come for the Christian, then ..... well eventually they will come for ever non communist and the world will be perfect.

Except the movement is not about instilling communism. It is about not having lobbyist buying laws in their favor, wall street being held responsible for destroying the economy, corporations no longer being allowed huge tax breaks while exporting jobs overseas. Yes it is a major overhaul of the system but it needs to be done. This is not the United States our forefathers intended.

Natasha, Who is going to stop the Lobbyists?, Lobbyists are part of the capitalist system, if you do not want Capitalism, what do you want?
You want wall street to be held responsible for destroying the economy. Ok, I agree, what laws were broken? Very few if any. It was government policy that encouraged Wall street to give loans to people who were high risk and then encouraged others to treat that risk as an investment. Government is giving companies tax breaks, is that the fault of these companies? They are only paying and playing by the rules the government creates. The government that is making it ever more difficult to hire employees and in some cases is telling companies to send thousands of jobs to India, not because of a US law, but because of an Indian law that has no real jurisdiction. When you say this is not the system that the fore fathers intended, I am not exactly sure what you mean, but let’s assume you intended to say our founding fathers, and in that case I would agree. They were biggest concern is that the government would grow in its authority, outside the bounds of enumerated responsibilities listed in the constitution. They were scared of that authority being centralized and managed by one or very few people. They were scared that we would fight for our independence from one king and essentially create another one.
Ultimately, you have a valid list of concerns, but the OWS group seems to be directing its anger against big money and big business but not big government. Why?
Let’s take your premise for a moment and assume that all OWS people have the same issues that you have. What would you want to happen next? The big companies are not going to start paying more in taxes just because OWS want them two, someone is going to have to make them pay more, someone with the power or authority. Who could that be? Well the government is the only entity that could do that, but that would be outside the constitution. Why should that stop this president, he has said that he is willing to side step the constitution to create jobs, to create healthcare and to do several other things he deems necessary. All he need is a little permission from the people with or without the help of congress.


Government seems to be creating most of the issues that you have and the last thing they are going to do is hold themselves responsible, that is our job, at the voting booth. Yes sometimes the law makers need a wakeup call that is why the Tea Party was created to work within the law and to influence our elected officials to follow the rule of law and the will of the people. The OWS groups seem to be more about intimidation of companies and private individuals. You can only stir that pot for so long before you end up with violence like in England this past summer. Make no mistake, Europe is finding that it cannot afford it socialistic programs any longer and it must embrace capitalism to keep from going bankrupt and we are almost in the same boat.

So in the end it seems as though this group is about change, or as you put it: “a major overhaul of the system”. My question is what is the intended end result? If it is to ditch the constitution and its freedom, then you may want a group that can ignore the rule of law and the constitution, this president and OWS seem like a good fit. Remember he said “Fundamental Change”, where do you go by fundamentally changing a Free Republic? I would expect to see communism. You say that the movement is not trying to create communism. Are you sure? Really Sure? I don’t need a response, I just want you to think and make you recognize when this group is doing something that is more about Communism than you care for.

Clark,
I will say you make very valid points. I can only hope that OWS gets more organized and funnels their anger towards the big government that is allowing big corps to overrun our lives. The main issue is that politicians are ran by the big corps which makes overhaul extremely difficult. I don't know how an overhaul would happen but I know it needs to begin soon.

Thanks, We the people have authority over politicians, not companies. But it is our vote that can instilled the change needed to fix these issues and influence the relationship between big companies and big government. It is that power that is the difference from all other forms of government. It allows us to voice our opinion without having to resort to violence or arrests in the streets.

A M E N!

The idea here is to alert Politicians and put them on notice, enough lies, enough listening to the notion that we are in a ' ECONOMIC CRISIS ' yet they grant themselve payraises, yet the RAISE OUR TAXES while property value and declined (homes not just mobile homes and the like), the true questions are why were our tax dollars according to Hilary Clinton herself quote "donated" to the likes of Pakistan, Gaza and it doesn't stop there, so many lies we are told by United States Government, and expected to believe the garb!

We heard the one word campaign of OBAMAnation " CHANGE " that surmounted to nothing more than buddy buddy with Clinton relics are you kidding me?

Wicked Halloween to you as well,


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This article came from Doug Schoen who was a democrat pollster. He did not ask some questions that I wish he would have, pinning down what percentage of the protesters are anti Semitic, for instance. Thus showing some bias as he sent a clear warning to the democratic establishment that embracing of this crowd may be toxic. He did some polling of members of the OWS crowd and found some interesting information:
“In interviews, protesters show that they are leftists out of step with most American voters. Yet Democrats are embracing them anyway.”
“The protesters have a distinct ideology and are bound by a deep commitment to radical left-wing policies.”
“Half (52%) have participated in a political movement before, virtually all (98%) say they would support civil disobedience to achieve their goals, and nearly one-third (31%) would support violence to advance their agenda.”

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204479504576637082965745362.html

Clark, I agree with you completely on all points. I have been watching the news, reading media reports, etc. on this since it began and I am not sure even half of the protestors know what they are protesting. For example, here at Occupy Cleveland (a very small and peaceful group), the majority of them are talking about their hate for large businesses as they drink Starbucks and wear clothing from major retailers. So, they support these corporations when it is convenient for them and then protest them because it is the cool thing to be doing at the moment.