HELL ON EARTH! - THE TRAGEDY AT MYANMAR

I share your wish that oppressors like the Myanmar cabal, will eventually become benevolent rulers, but I am not optimistic.
Today's headlines in the LA Times noted that the UN-sponsored shipments of food had been confiscated by the despicable despots and were being exported to Bangladesh to enrich the bastards. Meanwhile, they shipped rice that was spoiled by water damage to their people.
Rulers like this deserve to be strung up by their private parts and left to hang until they are dead.

Bert - What do you really feel?

It is impossible for me to think about the multitudes suffering and not grieve, not only for what nature can do, but what people can do to people already hurting.

Gibbs,
LOL...I guess I shouldn't beat around the bush like that, and come right out with it, but I have always been a reticent, soft-spoken person, as you know. (grin)

I am with you all on that !!! and then some !

Well, It would be great if Mother Nature would start with those evil dictators.

I think we need to send many, many letters to the Ambassadors. I can't help remembering those words, "fiddling while Rome burned." Caesar didn't actually play the violing but it amounts to the same, the generals are playing at giving charity, instead of DOING it. Sooner or later, their own people will get angry, if they haven't already. The French Revolution is something the generals should have studied; similar conditions, similar autocratic leader and not enough money!
Write! Remind the uniformed peacocks were ALL watching.

the Juata there seems to care more about its stablity than their people

sad over there...just sad

So what really does motivate these so called leaders to consciously interfere with getting appropriate aide to the people they have assumed responsibility to lead? One possibility is that they are karmic brothers of the rulers of places like those in Cambodia who created an internal genocide to weed out the inferior people from the superior people. Then I think of the Nazi regime and their calculated solution fro separating the wheat from the chaff. Then the crusades comes to mind.

When are we as a collective of human beings ever to realize that there is no such thing as perfection.... When will we acknowledge the reality of differences?

This is not for me a Happy Mothers Day when so many in the world are drowning in their tears apparently induced by unhappy and brutish would be fathers.

gibbs, as I read down the comments, I so wanted to interject a more "spiritual karmic" aspect to all of this, a consideration of involvement with realms and dimensions other than ours that are really existent and very involved with all we do ...

But I knew that it would be too much to consider for the readers, so I knew that I could not ... until you cracked the door open mentioning "Karmic" with your last comment ... (9:59)


You, and most, by now know that I am involved with such views due to my own spiritual experiences ... I would posit here that the possibility does exist, that due to other lives before and after death, there is a Karmic process of divine spiritual record keeping and accounting for our actions based upon our intentions during our lives ...

To the degree that a life lived to excess, out of balance, such as a nasty dictator type, abusing the folks under them ... that, will require a reciprocity of balance, either in that life or another incarnation ... I suggest that such balancing does take place in the greater picture of God's reality which we actually see very little of concerning ourselves in ONLY this one life ... where some people in fear, or for whatever reason, become greedy and violent to those folks they can intimidate and control ... maybe like what goes on in places like you have mentioned ...

Picture our universe as a really huge place beyond our ability to know or even come close to understanding, picture in mind spiritual realms of many time/space dimensions containing forms of sentient beings, most invisible to our measly 5 senses .... but never-the-less spiritually interconnected under and within a hierarchy of spirits with a God as the epitome of the total, that keeps track of everything and metes out Karmic justice throughout ... assigning our Souls to incarnations for schooling on the planets that best serve our Karmic learning experience of cause and effect/affect ... a chance to come here losing our greater spiritual remembrance in the coming, taking up the "role" in life that gives us that overall balance the Soul needs ...

The victim role here played out now, as those in say Myanmar, suffering under bad conditions basically because they had been on the "other side" in a previous incarnation, being former dictator types NOW finding out what it is really like to be on the receiving end of the stick ... meanwhile those so "enjoying" (they think now) their roles of oppressor, will in another life become the victims for the opposite experience ... this "reversal" of roles goes on throughout eternity on countless planets of countless dimensions involving countless realities ... of which our earth world is of a singular particular one known throughout the spiritual cosmos just for such a purpose ... to allow Souls to learn first hand that what goes around comes around throughout eternity and infinite space ...

There being great advancement opportunities for those that learn their lessons sooner rather than later ... in more heavenly realms of experience OR maybe even more hellish realms than this one ...

The point and moral of the story being, there are no free lunches and in the greater picture all is balanced out ...

Of course this is an oversimplification of what is surely extremely complex ... but there are lessons to be learned for all involved as well as those of us watching from afar ... we are all here to learn .. and it was by prior spiritual agreement with the understanding that it would be just this way ... though all knew they would forget the spiritual relationship in coming here via birth ... our real goal, above all, is to remember our spiritual inter-connectivity ... especially that we are of one interconnected family here overall and also connected much the same spiritually with nature and our planet itself ...

If we refuse to awake to this truth, things in our lives will get ever more extreme in the form of human to human trauma and associated happenings coming from nature itself, all spiritually choreographed ... but which we as Souls ARE self responsible for ...

Just something that we all really should consider ... guaranteed that we will, eventually, when it all begins to hurt enough ...

PS ... taken a step further, metaphorically, these folks ARE, as you suggest, the dominant male (father) role model with serious ego problems about self worth and authority issues, they see the "weaker" (mothers) as useful to them to supply their needs at their discretion first and foremost ... in some respects a Hawk VS Dove scenario, the Lion and Lambs where the stronger prey on the weaker ... duality as (+/-).

Had Adam been so to Eve, we would none of us have even made it this far I would suggest ... and if we do not soon learn to appreciate our natural diversity as humans and cooperate more, we may well eventually self destruct ... with the universe being better off for it ... we peoples are very much like an out of control cancer here on our earth ... it cannot forever survive at this rate ... nature will be spiritually rebalanced though in one way or another ... some examples such as Myanmar are beginning to show that for those that would open their eyes ... IMnsHO. (+=-)>(+/-)

While we are speculating about the nature of reality might we also consider that there is no 'spiritual' balancing act going on - that, instead, is being acted out - as usual - the not uncommon play of some corrupt evil leaders blinded by their pathological narcissism controlling the mechanisms of power to what ever whim they so choose - the majority will of most of their enslaved populace be damed.

The lesson to be learned is the naturalistic linear cause and effect ones that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. That Democracy is fragile indeed - thus heeding the prophetic words of Jefferson with respect to this point: "Eternal Vigilance."
gibbs williams, May 11, 2008

Yes Jeff, your comment did influence me also, as I noted about reading down the thread in mine.

The question that you ask about how do we reduce the population is probably the toughest one going for mankind today. What are the options ? ...

How about forced sterilization ? But that would require a master dictator wouldn't it ? Not likely something the mass of humanity would voluntarily give up ...

Well, the real answer, as I see it, of course, is a spiritual one ... to come to know the truth of our spiritual interconnection so as to come to know that we can trust and love each other as belonging to a common family under a loving non-judgemental God that would help us help ourselves in every way imaginable ... first requirement: to deal only in truth.

Once we begin appreciating our natural world diversity and cooperating in creating synergy rather than destructive conflict, we would all become more prosperous and healthy, mentally balanced and able to enjoy life more with working less at it ... we even might enjoy life itself so much that we quit concentrating on the only thing left for the poor people now to enjoy ... screwing. After all, like drug taking, it IS an approximation of a real spiritual experience of the mind ... and when you have not the real one, it is a ready substitute in place of it ...

I have had the real, so I do know the difference, know that it is possible for all, and would make one hell of a difference in this world of ours ... to let go and let God just may be a solution to our mutual problems world wide ... I doubt that we could do much worse than we have been doing. God helps those who help themselves, and it becomes personal, needing NOT churches.

gibbs, whatever floats one's boat I suspect, I offer a spiritual understanding on the road to a solution, you offer a temporal one ... it matters not to me which one is used, what matters is the result ... lets just do it !

gibbs, you also said earlier that there was no such thing as "perfection" ... that is true, and I agree with it FROM the common WORLD PERSPECTIVE of the word ...

But when one looks that word up in the dictionary, they may be surprised that it CAN mean something such as "complete and whole in it's own natural way" ... being what we all WOULD BE ... PERFECT as human beings once we came to know and work with the Spirit withIN ... perfection otherwise is like the elusive pot of gold at the end of a rainbow that is always moving just in front of you never reachable.

Perfectly stated Jerry.

The human animal is, for whatever reason, obsessed with power. Maybe it is a natural outcome of the evolutionary path we have taken. From the earliest humans, preyed upon by the cave bears and saber-toothed tigers, etc., they learned that there was safety in numbers, and then some of them learned that there was even greater safety...and comfort...if you CONTROLLED those numbers! And so the competition for power was begun.
It may be that our competitiveness is the reason we have survived as a species.
Now, the question is, can we continue to evolve into the caring stewards of our planet that we need to become if we are survive. Can we nurture and protect the other species while we learn to get along with each other?

So far, an objective observer would have to conclude that we cannot.

I hope we can prove that observer wrong.

Given the apparent accuracy of your overview no wonder there is a continuing wish that a Messiah would intervene. Theneed for rescue from an omnipotent and omniscient live person as the representative and embodiment of a perfect transcendent God is surely understandable at such overwhelming times as these. But this plea for divine intervention fails as well as there are factions in spirit land too. Even though monotheism tends to be the majority belief there are different interpretations as to the nature of God and whose side God is on.

Conclusion: we are apparently stuck with ourselves in this great mystery and the best we can do is to gather together with those who share our values in the hope that we will be able to control our destiny at least in some matters.

Yeah, I sure don't think we should count on divine intervention to solve our self-inflicted problems, Gibbs.

I would hope that I never ever suggested anything about divine intervention ... the divine I mention is about helping us help ourselves ... but, as gibbs suggests, there are negative gods as well as positive gods ... any would be more than happy to help us, be they called upon ... I suspect that some of the people responsible for much of the worlds problems, do in fact associate with some of those negative gods ... that is what the word evil really means to me ...

But it does not stand to (my) reason that one need be affected adversely by them when one deals with the neutrality of the Spirit of the Real God, who is also neutral ... (+=-) ... God is the balance in the very center (=) of all "other" potentials (+=-).

The average religionist takes the stand and claim for an extreme right (+), creating himself, the very evil of the extreme wrong (-) by so labeling others different than himself. Duality (+/-) of mere gods (+) and (-) contending, Christ against Satan and vice versa ... these folks (and the rest of us to), being made in the Image of God, have god like creator abilities, thus they call on mere gods to create their own reality and even claim one of those gods (Christ) as God Himself ... pure ignorance, but ubiquitous world wide, conflict in the so-called "heavens" as well as conflict on earth, as above so below and vice versa ...

All is relative and in duality there is only +/- , and choices must be made for one or the other ... even GWB insists upon that in regard to terrorists and their supporters, no middle ground discussion allowed, no grey areas, extremes only, us(+) against them (-).


My God IS NEUTRAL ... we have free agency to create or destroy, and many gods are made available to assist us, but it is up to us, God and the gods will never do it for us ... we are self responsible, it is all up to us ... and as long as religionists make claims for their god(s) as being God and as (+) as they claim to be, making then the real balance required of the offsetting god(s) of the negative rank and order, there will always be conflict without peace ... (+/-) is all about conflict across the void or gap of (/) ... duality.

Enter the neutral Spirit of the Neutral God as (=) creating (actually only our realizing) the Trinity of (+=-) and all "sides" then can focus upon and associate with each other through the Peace Maker (=) ... (+=-).

Please forgive the preaching, it is late, I am tired, but felt it appropriate ... knowing that most will not read anyway, having heard it all before ... nothing ventured nothing gained. :-)

It would be good if the energy spent of discussing the matter, by politicains, the media, the journalists, the public, and those on gather discussing the plusses and minuses of higher metaphysics, was spent on positive action. The Ambassadors will soon tire of the endless flow of letters of objection...if only they got them!!!

The help and supplies for Burma is at hand, apparently. We just need to nudge the generals in the right direction! The pen is mightier than the sword!

Jeff, I have no doubt that you are ultimately correct in your assessment and an end result. I was only attempting to say that there "could" be a preventive via some spiritual maturity on our part as a peoples coming to seek and trust the God that I am aware of, who would assist us all with such problems in a more beneficial (benevolent) way short of the violence you speak of.

But it well may take such a drastic shocking to our perceived reality, in order to open our eyes to that option, to where we begin to believe enough to ask for help from God ... related maybe to the saying that "there are no atheists in the foxholes during war".

Jeff - are you suggesting that the leaders of Mynamar be nominated to receive the Nobel peace prize for their effectiveness in reducing the 'cancerous' over poulation of their expendable country's people?

Jeff, Jerry Kays, and gibbs: Jeff's way of looking at it is an opinion but it certainly isn't a conscious thing as far as nature is concerned, unless one wants to attribute the weeding process as one at God's direction. I think that we (mankind) are certainly in for a spat of calamitous events, both man made and natural. I also think that at least part of it will be God directed. But I personally (and this is just an opinion) believe that the reason for this is not to reduce over population, which we are able to control willfully if we want to and are organized sufficiently to do it. It will be, rather, a natural result of our (mankind's) inability to mature or evolve socially fast enough to do what is necessary and beneficial to our survival and role as "caretaker of the Earth." That is to say, part of the natural process is that of "learning through experience." Sometimes (perhaps usually) this process of experience must be serious enough to "inspire" us to do what we are reticent to do as a matter of intelligent course. People don't seem to "get off their asses" until someone or something digs a sharp spur into their sides or backsides. As I've said in many other comments and articles, we (present day mankind in general) are still operating politically in the same mode that baboon troops (and we a million years ago) operate. The partisan political methodology is obsolete and "broken." More serious, though, is the fact that our spiritual awareness of our place "in the sun" is also seriously obsolete. We are still operating (as Jerry likes to point out) in the polarized mode of chest beating, stomping for approval, and screaming to make our wishes known. Sometimes we do this quietly (deceptively so) at a fine conference table with coats and ties to make us look modern and "human" but we are still basically functioning in that same polarized mode. Religion (not the churches but the Founders of religion) have all told us to stop doing this but we are loath to listen and implement it except sometimes on Sunday (or Friday or Saturday) under very limited circumstances. We are competing for bananas in the baboon mode all the time. The people of Mynamar are caught in this baboon climate just as we are only their leaders are more obvious about it. Food and water and medical supplies is not their greatest need except momentarily. It is a change in modus operandi, politically, socially, and religiously that is needed. They (and we as time goes by, increasingly so) have to go through awakening and sobering trials until we have the guts and fortitude to stand up and make changes in our own lives and our own expectations sufficiently to take our rightful place on this planet. Until then, we are really in for it. Watch out, for it is coming here too, soon.

Amen! - Donald

Donald, I am in full agreement ... but in addition, it seems to say to me in the Urantia Book's messages, which I have little reason to distrust, that there are multiple spiritual authorities that are responsible for ALL aspects of everything that takes place, including all of that of nature ... I personally have little doubt, actually none, that whatever comes to pass will be inspired for the greater good of the whole which is far past our ability to comprehend let alone understand ... cosmic cycles are also involved to which there will be spiritual "fine tuning" ... there ARE NO ACCIDENTS in that greater picture ... IMnsHO.

Jerry - If you are accurate that "multiple spiritual authorities are responsible for ALL aspects of everything that takes place then we should all head for Disney World or a similar place of illusions as nothing any f us do would relly amount to the preverbial "hill of beans." Then everything is euqaly to everything else and there are no relative values. Perosnally if this happens to be true I dissent.

gibbs, that is NOT at all the way I see it or what I meant ... taking the UBook into consideration, there are spiritual interests greater than ours from the overall universal perspective, of which ours is only one of seven, if I remember correctly, but we do have free agency to make (create) our own "personal" realities "within" the greater whole which is a co-creative process ... but prior to our births here, we had a plan to be roughly followed, an "outline" of generalities so to speak, as if a stage or movie role that we would act out with others of our own prior and present spiritual group, of course losing our remembrance of that plan upon birth here.

Thus the specifics are all up to us to decide (improv) upon, the only thing controlled, as I suggested, by the gods, would be the stage settings, the props so to speak, which could be extremes of weather, plagues, Geo shifts and the like, some even caused by cosmic cycle movements with energies we are yet unaware of as well as those we are aware of such as gravity byproducts when say a huge planet enters our field because of rotational cycles with time/space qualities we yet know nothing about ...

The point being, whatever happens, it is only a particular "act" and after the intermission of "change" (possibly our physical death) the next act takes place as per the original eternal plan on a different stage setting, possibly another physical experience, but if not, a spiritual experience that capitalizes upon what we have learned here during this lifetime as our soul lessons, where metaphor is key over the knowledge of logical specificities ... of course I can NOT say that I know this for sure, but based upon experience, esoteric reading and intuition, it is the way I understand that it plays out.

Of course to each their own and their creative abilities (given in the image of God) will play out accordingly, and possibly quite differently ... nothing is so preplanned that we cannot change our personal perception and understanding of it all ... paradox it is (+=-) and always a mystery of sorts ... yet with the relationship to "Truth" (=), there is no fear and the anticipations are good.

I do not ask any to take my word as the gospel IF they really think they have a better idea, whatever floats our boats and mine works for me ... IMnsHO.

It's all very well discussing this situation, but we, that's all of us with the ability to have a 'voice', can do something towards making the generals aware that we see a different and more humane way of dealing with their problems.

We need to shout loud, tell the ambassadors and any others linked with this regime that we are watching them, knowing they are bungling the care and welfare of their people and they could do better with extra help and aid. Whether we like it or not, they appear to believe in what they are doing. We need to help them take off their blinkers, that autocratic empire building is no way to a better future for the people who rely on them.

I think there is an irony in the way China has dealt with their earthquake problems; letting help in and being open about the good and the bad of it. Perhaps the generals will learn a thing or two, perhaps all of us will.

Maybe at some time in the future, our leaders will learn to deal with the global problems of starvation, disruptions like cyclones, floods, tsunamis and volcanoes in a quicker, more efficient way, rather than getting too trigger happy with the lives of ordinary people in other lands and starting expensive invasions. Egotistical politicians do us no good at all.

Peace.

Jerry - Excuse what you might refer to as quibbling but the difficulty I have with a rough outline of a spiritual plan is what if one chooses not to follow the plan? Logically what you are saying is one has free will as long as it eventually conforms to the rough spiritual plan? What if I don't personally agree with the specific details of the spirituality in question? Too bad for me. I should have know better and get with the program? What if my Karmic incarnations I continue to challenge the details of the final authorities all I can look forward to is a continuation of living although suffering?

Gibbs: I'm sure Jerry will answer for his own in his own way. But my take on your questions is this: Your scenario is the crux of the whole process. We were given "free will" as an important, even crucial, part of the cosmic PLAN. The natural universe (in all it's humongous grandeur) exists for and as a result of us (as per Quantum Physics). Your right to "choose" is a most important part of this in that it is the key to your own spiritual development. As you challenge "the details" you learn though consequent results and consequences pertaining thereto and "by choice" then modify your perceptions and choices or not modify them in order to receive more poignant "lessons" about God and the mechanics of your future "spiritual life." In other words, "do as you wish. Your future will depend upon how fast you learn or how many lessons it takes to develop your 'human' side."

Donald - You make Platonism sound like an invitingly seductive dish. However - given my experiential distrust of absolute authorities I bristle at the assumption of a pre ordained trancendal plan for all mankind. If indeed there is such and I am in accord with its tenents and basic principles I forsee no problem. If however it appears that the consciousness assumed behind the plan is not to my personal liking then there will be hell to pay. Pun intended.

The situation in Burma/Myanmar is really getting out of hand. Hundreds of Burmese refugees attempt to flee to the safety and freedoms of Thailand every day, even though the Burmese and Thai have, traditionally speaking, not really gotten along all that well. Please consider cross-posting this to Everything Thai.

gibbs, Donald has a much better way with words than do I, and he said it beautifully for me ...

What needs, I think, to be taken into consideration here, from my perspective, is that the "final authority" that you, and I, would naturally object to, in the spiritual sense, as I understand it, does NOT exist as an "authority" other than the expression of UNconditional Love (which means NO FAVORITES, NO JUDGEMENT) (ONLY KARMIC ACCOUNTING which is overall NEUTRAL)(+=-).

In this (more panentheistic) consideration, we are all parts of God, set free as individuals, as in fractions of (1/xxx's), we being the x's and God being the 1, we each and all have the mix of the fullness of both (all) potentials, positive and negative, each of which began (so to speak) with God at Alpha (time consideration as beginning) and theoretically "ends" with our reunification at Omega ... when all "returns" back to God with the knowing realization of such truth ... now IF that never happens, then there is simply a "longer" eternity ... all time and space actually only being man-made "constructs" to show "differentiations" of experiences in temporal living ... all of which cancel each other out where they were "allowed" to be created "from" in the first place, God, their Alpha source and Omega return. Thus God via NEUTRAL SPIRIT (=), reflecting throughout creation, God (ALSO NEUTRAL) HAS NO AGENDA for creation, other than it's eventual realization which precedes it's RETURN at Omega ...

We thus have as that creation, an eternity and an infinity of our own creative making, allowed by God, to experiment and find out our learning by trial and error until we freely settle upon our own truth as to what it is that we prefer ... there is something for everyone ... to each their own !!! Even your present wants, desires, mind set, whatever ... what goes around comes around and over time that truth will become known ... and then the person learning of it will naturally and gladly treat all others as they themselves would be preferred to be treated (The Golden Rule) ... and all will live just as they want ... there ARE NO ACCIDENTS ... thus NO real VICTIMS ( karmic accounting will see to it that over the eternity, possibly in different lifetimes, that opposites will be paired with each other, where if you were a victimizer in one instance, in the next you would be a victim ... that to know both sides in actual experience) ... because KARMIC ACCOUNTING sees to that ... only those in need of lessons will receive them for their own (and creations) greater good, the learning of the TRUTH of (+=-), the BET (Basic Equation of Truth) the UNIversal principle of God.

So in other words gibbs, it is just fine and OK for each of us to do our own thing ... and God/Spirit will keep it all sorted out and each will get their just desserts ... ENJOY you ARE FREE !!!

The ONLY AUTHORITIES are the earth worlds PERVERSION of DIVINE TRUTH, where ego dominated people set themselves up falsely as leaders and authorities, only they, the deceivors, dictate rules and agendas that they try and force or entice us each and all into following and freely participating in ... a counterfeit reality (actually "evil" in comparison to God's) of manifested OBJECTIVE thoughts and THINGS ... where the INner subjectivity of the Spiritual holds the ONLY REAL TRUTH ... the TRUTH that sets man FREE !!!

IMnsHO of course, that being ONLY mine.

And to get BACK on thread ... the generals in Myanmar WILL next time around have the pleasure of being what are now their abused peasants (in experience) ... and of course the abused peasants may have well been similar generals in a previous time ... OR they just elected to "play that role" this time around for other reason known only on the spiritual level ... IMnsHO.

Gibbs ~ This is an excellent Article that has elicited a litany of commentary that is also very interesting. I look forward to reading more of your Articles.

Blessings ~
René