Iran, Iraq and the Middle East Struggle

If Iraq turns into another Vietnam, things will have turned out alright indeed.

Brian - very well stated and I agree 100%. Too bad your message will not be heeded, particularly the scope of "you have no idea the maelstrom that will be unleashed if we fail to SUCCEED in Iraq and Afghanistan."

Why don't the anti-war folk think ahead of what happens when we bail out of Iraq? They only focus on the belief that we should not be there - and that is the end of the though process short of doing anything and everything to get us out.

Brian,
What you neglected to mention is that we should not even be in Iraq! Before we invaded Iraq, it was a fairly stable state with a murderous dictator controlling the factions over there. The real battle should have been confined to Afghanistan, and tracking down individual terror cells around the world including here at home. Instead, we have wasted hundreds of billions of dollars on a needless war, and created millions of new enemies around the globe, and cost the precious lives of thousands of our brave troops. Iraq may never become a stable country with a democratic government. A trillion dollars spent in Iraq, could have done a lot to provide security, and well being for us at home, and not sent our troops into an un-winnable war. There is no way to win a so called war when there is no defined enemy. It's not a war...it is an occupation at this point, and we have way to few troops there to occupy Iraq safely. And one more item, almost all of the 9/11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia...not Iraqi's! Give one good reason wht we should have invade Iraq in the first place. The CIA knew they did not have WMD's and Bush fired the people who tried to convince him of that! If we leave, and Iraq collapses, how does that hurt us here? Don't tell me "it emboldens the terroists"...that's a bunch of BS...they are already emboldened, and we need military protection here in the US, not in Iraq. I hope you also support a %100 increase in your taxes to pay off the loans from China...

Finish what we started? What exactly did we start? A war to capture the weapons of mass destruction? (Guess we accomplished that before we started the war.) A war to topple a "bad man" (Guess we did that in the first few months of the ground war.) A war to kill or capture Saddam? (Guess what the Iraqi have already swung him from a rope.) Let's see what were the other excuses, oh yeah to bring the blessings of democracy to the Iraqis at gun point (Well, they have an elected government.) Hm? To turn Iraq into an American puppet state? Yeah we haven't done that yet -- but remember we aren't imperialists! Let's also remember for those who are in denial about Viet Nam, that Hitler rose to power on a similar misconception as to whether they won or lost WWI. Hitler blamed the Jews for betraying their country and throwing away the victory that Germany was achieving. Do you intend the same sentiment towards the American anti-war protestors?

You see what we're dealing with here, Brian? Amazing. Not one care about what happens IF they get their way. No forward thinking at all. This is how they live their lives.... one day at a time, future be damned.

So we are now prosecuting a holy war? Iran = al Queda? Hm, al Queda is Sunni wahabi based, Iran is Persian and Shia based. The pan Islam movement is falling apart as is readily apparent if you were to actually pay attention. Yes, if we pull out there is going to be some extreme violence in Iraq, and yes, Iran's influence is going to magnify there -- the only way we can stop Iran's influence in Iraq is establish and arm another Sunni strong man -- like Bush I did, his name was Saddam by the way. This has to be worked out by the countries in the region and letting them do so is not going to give rise to some type of pan-Islam superpower. The only thing so far which has seemed capable of uniting the Shia and the Sunni is the continued presence of the United States in the region -- otherwise they degenerate into killing each other. If that was not the case, Israel would have ceased to exist a long time ago.

"lose another war at home; like they did in Vietnam."

Oh please, not another idiotic quote like Bush's stupid remarks about "quitting"in Hanoi.
We spent more than ten years in Viet Nam, lost more than 50,00 American lives, bombed all the surrounding countries, propped up a succession of corrupt puppet governments, set "benchmarks", tried for six years to help the south vietnamese "stand up" so we could "stand down" - and helped another corrupt and lying Republican administration into a secopnd term on the basis of a big lie (the dominoes are falling, the dominoes are falling; Iraq spawned 9-11, Iraq spawned 9-11).

Viet Nam became a real nation, and now a trading partner, when we left.

It's time to get out of Iraq now.

We cannot prevent or respond effectively to any of the dangerous things that we fear might occur as long as we are in that quagmire.

Brian-
I'll pay your airfare to Bagdad and back IF you feel the same way when you return.

You have to return alive to collect from an escrow agent. While in Baghdad you must visit Sadr City, Basra, Tikrit, and 4 other cities including one in the Kurdish North.

If you have changed your mind after 10-days in-country then the wisdom was worth the air fare.

AND you cannot stay overnight in the Green Zone.

To destroy a secular state with modern infrastructure and socialistic legal system and institutions (including excellent educational institutions, as the University of Baghdad with 70,000 students and some 40 other universities in the 12 major cities, modern universal health care and so on)and a prosperous middle class with equal participation of women with men in the professions and strict suppression of religious factionalism required bombing its civilian infrastructure at the time of the Gulf War, then , for a dozen years, imposing harsh sanctions that caused a million deaths, with the coup de grace of invading it, dismantling the army, the civil service and social institutions of the central government and installing a government of puppets (many long expatriates from the country ) whom the people did not trust. The development of death squads and private militias from within the puppet government and its various ministries was funded in large part by funds made available by our Czar, Paul Bremer. Today, although there have been elections, the various members of the government and its different ministries are served by competing paramilitary groups who are part of and work from within the government's 150,000-man Iraqi Army and the large police force. The battle in Baghdad is strategic: gain control of neighborhoods area by area. The targeting of intellectuals and professionals by death squads began at the time of the invasion and the development of ethnic cleansing as an extension has driven many Iraqis who can to flee Baghdad and Iraq. Already, a large university has been established in Syria, funded privately by Iraqis. It is non-denominational. Most Iraqis consider themselves Iraqis, and it was long considered bad form to ask another's religion. In the major dozen cities of Iraq , Shia and Sunni Iraqis have intermarried for generations.

The United States could back militarily one Shia faction (which is divided among several competing ones) and in bloody Soviet-style, gain control by force of the rest. This would require many hundred thousands of American troops and a long term effort.

The notion that we still can bring order to the situation - essentially acting alone, or unilaterally - by adding a few more troops, training Iraqis to fight for the government, effectively institute a "jobs program," and improve reconstruction of infrastructure is unrealistic. It could make things much worse to attempt it.

Prime Minister al-Maliki's expressed view is that the United States should remove its troops from the city of Bagdhad and that the 150,000 Iraqi Army should be totally disbanded because it is controlled by different members serving different ministries. This is self-serving in that it favors giving the factions that support him a better chance to tackle the ones against his, now fighting in the streets. But it reflects the reality of the situation.

Blaming the Iraqis for the failure of occupation and making specious claims that Iran has been furthering the civil war (which is certainly not in their interest to do) is sadly in character with many previous lies and distortions made by the Bush administration since the invasion of Iraq in 2003.

It is too late to think we can control the situation by "staying the same course." Why did General Abizaid not want more troops or increased direct participation on the ground by Americans? He had to get into line with supporting the escalation , later. "Well I was thinking maybe two brigades could help , but five could be good because it would provide a reserve if needed."

We have a heavy responsibility to Iraq . That requires a clear strategy that addresses the real situation. Zbigniew Brzezinski in his eloquent testimony to the Senate Foreign Relations Commitee on February 1,2007 has presented a clear and comprehensive strategy, embracing Iraq and the Middle East. What is needed now is for Congress to act like statesmen for the sake of our nation.

Mr Bonner i completely agree with you. I think it is too bad that some people dont see the seriousness of staying in Iraq, Taking out the last of the terrorists there, and dealing with Iran. We do need to finnish what we started.
-Mr McNaughton, Yes we went there for Weapons of mass destruction, to overthrow a tyrannical leader, and to bring Democracy to their nation so they can, in the future, be a great asset to america. Sure they dont say anything in the mainstream media about the weapons, but i bet you they were there..... oh, I do believe that the UN had told saddam that we would go in by force if he did not let inspectors in to check and make sure he had no nuclear weapons.... how long did he deny entrance to the UN???? first off, We did find 500 tons of serine (mustard) gass with missles that it could be put into......hmm are those not weapons of mas destruction???? also who controlled the syrian borders?? i believe Iraq... hmm and he had since Desert storm to move his weapons.... i wonder where they are... And as far as what hitler said about the jews and comparing them to anti-war protestors... wow... is that all you can say to try and down the government, and military??
-Mr. Dave H..... why should we not be in iraq?? we were going after Osama... we did all we could in Afghanistan.. And what the media forgets to tell yopu is we still have troops there... But If you were osama, and knew an impending doom was coming your way would you stay where you are??? knowing we know where he is.. HELL NO! He is not in afghanistan. we bombed the crap out of it. Pull your head out. You know the mainstream media, or most of it, Doesnt show what needs to be showed.. thats why most americans think all of Iraq hates us.... Keep thinking what you will.
-Erza B. No, we take care of Iran Because they are a threat to us. they will not heed our warnigs of them continuing with their Nuke Program. Out of defiance and hatred twords us, Given the chance they would not think twice before using them on us, maybe even droping the bomb in Erza B's Back yard... they dont care.. They Hate us for our Beliefs, our lifestyles, and our Freedoms.. and dont try to say its because we are over there.... They Have always hated us. Why did Osama feel the need to blow up the trade centers?? we werent over there then... Its because they hate us for what i said earlier.. thats all there is to it.. Whether you want to believe it or not, we need to be in the middle east, and we WILL need to be over in Korea Eventually..when that time comes hopefully we are ready.

America's wars abroad increasingly require war on democracy at home. Chalmers Johnson describes the situation, its history and current state in his book NEMESIS.

Manufacturing enemies , as Islam, andthe phony "War on Terror" is a way of justifying wars. To wage wars requires increasing transfer of wealth to corporations (and our industry and jobs abroad) from the citizens and increased foreign debt. The establishment of Homeland Security assists the removal of Constitutional rights and its checks and balances to totalitarian rule.

Our CIA first hired Saddam as a thug in 1958 to overthrow the nationalist gonernment and we supported his rise to power in Iraq, even supplying lists of labor leaders, intellectuals and others to kill to seize control of the government, then backing his eight year war with Iran ( financed by Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and our tax dollars) until we decided to get rid of him by having Kuwait provoke him to invade. He stupidly fell for the trap.

When we invaded Iraq, one sceptical Baghdadi remarked, "Gone is the pupil, now comes the master." For most Iraqis, Saddam was not the leader they wished and he was our creation. Now we have made their situtaion worse than it was before we invaded. They will no longer support our efforts to repair the damage unless we seek the assistance of others outside Iraq .

Brandon E.-"Yes we went there for Weapons of mass destruction, to overthrow a tyrannical leader, and to bring Democracy to their nation so they can, in the future, be a great asset to america. " Do you really believe this?

Wish this were true then the US cause would have honor.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120137,00.html <- WMD moved to syria


http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1120720,00.html <-Mustard Gas

There is no agreement among people in government, the pundits et al on what the hype against Iran by Bush/Cheney is intended to accomplish. It may be just intended to distract from the war in Iraq, along the line of "blame the Iraqis." There is an intent to stir up tension between Saudi Arabia and sunni Arabs against Iran , too.

The opinion of most in the government, military and think-tanks is that an attack on Iran would be a disaster for us and strengthen Iran. It could inflame the whole region, too.

I recommend reading the warning about attacking Iran in SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITEE TESTIMONY -- ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=28147497690103

I suggest the world get more excited about China/Korea intentions.

India is fast becoming the wealthiest powerhouse in Asia. They are in process of joining (along with Iran) the SCO , the powerbloc formed by China, Russia et al ("The Shanghai Five"). They all have our dollars and those who have the gold make the rules. They don't need to destroy our currency or economy, but just control it.